导报：在不同的建筑项目中，您如何控制建筑材料的使用呢？

曼尼斯：我会承诺尽可能使用天然材料，因为它们的颜色和纹理可以让建筑在视觉上融入自然环境，并且材料上与其所在的文化相契合。同时，我使用的是制造加工而成、在当地常用的材料。比如，我在托伦的CKK Jordanki 音乐厅和国会大厅使用了混凝土和砖，因为除了当地制造的混凝土外，砖是该地区另一种最常见的材料，在建筑物和历史城市中心的立面上很常见。另外，在特内里费的Magma 文化与会议中心，我采用了岛上的混凝土和火山石，因为它们是加那利群岛中非常容易获取的两种材料。如果我要在中国进行建造，我也会使用当地的材料。

这种物质性的方法符合Km0 建筑的一个原则，我也算或多或少地坚持了这一原则。据专家称，建筑排放的二氧化碳约占总排放量的40%，其中大部分不是来自运营能源（开灯和空调所需的电力），而是来自建筑所需的能源。这种类型的能量消耗被称为蕴含能源，指在建筑材料和系统的生产和运输过程中产生的排放物。

如果我们渴望减少建筑的碳足迹，换句话说，如果我们想变得“绿色”，那就有必要对所有这些过程进行深入研究，因为仅仅配备节能技术或承诺节能的建筑（例如太阳能电池板）还不够，必须追踪这项技术从制造、运输过程到多年来的维护过程、其再利用或循环利用的潜力及生物降解性等。换句话说，需要全面的数据来评估承诺减少的排放量是否抵消了大楼的排放量。这是非常复杂的，目前，没有任何计划、软件和证书能够保证达成这一目标。从我所处的位置，一个几乎是手工馆大小的建筑工作室，我认为，如果我能够使用当地的材料、当地的公司和工匠，那我就可以为环境和社会凝聚力做出一点贡献。

除此之外，我们还努力再利用和回收所有可用材料。有时，我们会再利用整座建筑，比如拉奥罗塔瓦的Teobaldo Power 表演艺术厅的修复，或圣克鲁斯-德特内里费的旧学校La Asunción 和Viera y Clavijo 公园的适应性再利用，使其成为在欧洲的第二个总部，即未来的罗丹博物馆。或者，就像90 年代的El Tanque 文化空间一样，把一个古老的石油储藏地改造成了一个多用途的文化空间。在其他项目中，我们只再利用我们整合到新建筑中的元素或零件，从这个意义上说，加那利群岛政府的总统府算是一个典范，其建筑的核心是一个古老的木质天井；或是柏林施普雷河中的浮池，再利用并改造了一艘旧驳船；或是House MM，其构筑物连接到一个中央楼梯，这一楼梯由圣克鲁斯-德特内里费CEPSA 炼油厂的废料制成；或是CKK Jordanki 音乐厅，这部分利用了废弃的碎砖。

混凝土，在我们的建筑中非常常见，也是世界上使用最多的建筑材料之一，可能看起来不像是一种可持续的材料。然而，它是一种本土生产的材料，具有弹性、耐用、多用途等优点，可作为骨料回收来生产新的混凝土，大大减少了排放，成为循环经济的一部分。近日，联合国政府间气候变化专家组指出，随着时间的推移，混凝土建造的形式不断改进，目前在其生产过程中，能吸收高达50%的二氧化碳排放，因此它可以帮助改善生活环境（参考请见：https://www.ipcc.ch）。

导报：在建筑造型中，您的作品往往具有雕塑般的体量和边缘。这与您的经历或当地文化有关吗？

曼尼斯：在我的项目中，从环境、计划和预算所需的合理性出发，我会自由使用几何图形。克服对称性打开了新的方向，一方面，通过更接近自然界中更为典型的形式，或者，如您在问题中所说，增强某些雕塑属性，表达的可能性得到扩展。另一方面，技术上的可能性也得到了扩展，在不妨碍项目富有表现力这一雄心的前提下能够响应复杂的计划。我处理这种双重张力的方式是使用可塑材料制成的模型，它具有灵活性，可以随着信息和想法变化，在一个来回的过程中发展演变。为了解释模型和项目之间的这种互动关系，用CKK Jordanki 音乐厅和国会大厅作个例子，这也许是我迄今为止职业生涯中遇到的最复杂的例子，在大厅中，我们不仅通过模型和测量来定义声学系统，还整合了物质性和当地建设性文化。

CKK Jordanki音乐厅的声学设计要求空间具有灵活性，既可以作为Toruńska Orkiestra Symfoniczna 本部，也可以作为一个多用途的场地，用于举办各种类型的活动，包括会议、大型音乐会、剧院和歌剧。为了满足这些“雄心壮志”，可变声学成为了主厅设计的重要部分，为了实现这一点，我自己和声学工程师在之前工程中积累的经验就派上了用场。然而，声学是一门复杂的科学，它不仅需要知识和经验，还需要先进的技术工具才能达到预期的效果。在项目的初始阶段，由于其内表面覆盖着铝箔，我们通过分析激光束在大厅粘土模型中的反射来确定内表面的形状。这使我们能够实时对大厅进行造型设计。后来，在设计开发过程中，我们使用了计算机3D 建模在迭代过程中对大厅的形状进行微调。在设计过程中，我们将逐步细化模型并进行分析，直到对计算结果满意为止。在此过程中，我们还使用了大厅的比例模型来分析具体情况。大厅内表面高度不规则的几何形状确保了第一层的声音扩散，这些表面的形状经过精心制作，能够最大限度地扩大环绕感。使用厚重的材料（混凝土和砖）能够最大限度地减少低频吸收，完整展现浑厚饱满的低音。

并且，墙壁和天花板的粗糙纹理表面确保了第二层的声音扩散，且仅在高频率（2kHz 及以上）才会发挥作用。这就是当地物质文化和建设性文化的来源。什么是“picado”？这是一种新的、经过认证的材料，将混凝土与其他材料混合，并在混凝土凝固后“凿”其表面使其达到一定效果。添加材料的选择取决于一些因素，如功能性和表现力、与当地建筑文化契合或现场材料的可用性。在加那利群岛的总统府大楼（1999，特内里费岛）中，我们试验了纹理混凝土；但在Magma 文化和会议中心（2007，特内里费岛），我们将混凝土与多孔火山石混合在一起，并切割了最终表面，从而在空间中实现了某种声学效果，具有里程碑意义。我们完善了Jordanki 文化和会议中心（2015，波兰）的工艺，将混凝土与红砖混合在一起，红砖广泛应用于托伦历史中心的立面，以此来向这一遗产致敬。在这种情况下，在声音反射和扩散方面，高达3 到4 厘米的不规则块状混合物具有良好的声学特性，适合在音乐厅使用。除此之外，我们通常使用与当地经济相关的本土材料，而托伦的传统材料是砖。这种质地柔和了与坚硬平坦表面的镜面反射有关的刺耳声音，使管弦乐队的声音圆润、流畅。

导报：您的作品被称为“令人兴奋的建筑，人们一眼就会爱上它”。那您觉得人们为什么会对您的作品一见钟情呢？您作品成功的秘诀是什么？

曼尼斯：在我看来，从广义上理解，建筑要能够改善生活。我们的目标当然是改善人类的生活，但绝不要与自然环境发生冲突。与地球的历史相比，人类的历史相对较短。在人类之前，几乎存在着其他一切我们称之为自然的东西。在人类殖民、建筑出现之前，它的原始状态是什么样的？处于社会当中，该如何回应我们现在的现状和需要，而不必停留在当前总是转瞬即逝的时刻？怎样能建造一座能够适应我们随时间推移而不可避免地进化的建筑？每当我去受委托建造的新地方时，总会冒出这些想法，这是一种想象力的锻炼。有了答案后，我试图通过建筑恢复一种原始时间和地点的感觉，且同时仍然满足当前的计划和预算要求，但会着眼于未来。

如果尝试成功，其成果可以被称为“永恒建筑”。首先，由此构造的建筑或基础设施会引发一场自然意外，以彻底、演进的形式，构筑物将更接近于自然界中发现的形态，而不是人类制造的形态中发现的形态。在我们通常生活的拟人化场景中，不管审美偏好如何，任何自然或类似的表现形式都是令人神往的。或许这也解释了最初迷恋的原因。

但是，我的目标是在对项目有了更深入的了解后，将这种迷恋转化为持久的热情。出于这个原因，我把用户和建筑之间的关系想象成一次初始旅程，在这段旅程中，通过不同的感觉来不断打破界限：不同的纹理带来出乎意料的触感，控制自然光以创造戏剧性的效果，高空低空顺序排列使加压和减压的感觉交替，空隙构成视野框架并将视线引向景观，环绕的音响效果，增加保护感的体量等。

另外，在理性方面，我追求具有高度适应性的建筑：内部结构的某些不确定性为用户（无论是个人还是集体）留下了足够的自由，让他们可以在现在或将来的任何时候接管并使其成为自己的空间。同时，通过根据地形仔细开展工程、使用当地材料和公司、再利用和循环利用、被动解决方案和易于维护性来努力提高建筑物的可持续性。

导报：在不同国家和城市进行建筑创作之前，您对探索当地的地域文化有没有自己独特的想法？

曼尼斯：在我看来，建筑必须放在自然环境与人工环境里，想要破译两者之间已建立的编码关系，研究地域文化是必要的一步。这就需要我们观察当地的乡土建筑，研究其历史，了解区域和当地经济，揭示传统上使用的技术、解决方案和材料，因为它们的有效性已随着时间的推移而得到证明。这是一项不断积累的庞大学问，可以从当前技术提供的视角来加以利用。

这种信念使我开始了Hatching 这个长期研究项目，我们的小型创新部门正在开发，希望能够为可持续生活这个辩题做出贡献。Hatching 的研究方向之一是，在缺水的情况下能否生活。在沙漠和岛屿上，我们想要系统化和推动的事情已经有了直观的实践。例如，在杰里亚的兰萨罗特岛以及世界上其他干旱地区，农民通过多孔火山岩吸收云中湿气来对抗极端干旱。这种原始方法基于露点：露点温度是空气中所含的水蒸气开始凝结并产生露、雾、云或霜的最低温度。我们的研究受这一经验的启发，并想要升华这一原理，通过自然提供水和湿气来创造沙漠中宜居的栖息地。

我设想了一个零能源浪费的生命机器。我的目标是证明一个建筑能够通过输送水来创造生命，而水以前完全是通过自然能量和形式变换从风和云中提取的。1:1 原型建筑将是一个吸收性混凝土立方体。由于北风的侵蚀，其北侧多孔，因此潮湿的风可由此进入并在里面形成密集的“云”。这种冷凝会促使植被喷发式生长，并促进水循环。水也储存在构筑物的绝缘基础中，以保持其温度。基础也起到了抵御低层暖风的作用。而且，由于生命需要阳光，南侧将在避热的同时实现采光。外围的小气孔和大开口是复杂的管道和腔室系统的入口及出口，通过这些管道和腔室可以实现通风。

我认为，无论何时建造一座新建筑，都必须能够创新和确认自己的身份，但始终要从拥有和使用它的社区认可的角度出发。如果不是直接的公共空间或建筑，即使是最私人的住宅，通常也会有一个公共区域。建筑一旦建成就是无法回避的，每天都会看到它，都会与它互动。因此在我看来，建筑除了带有建筑师的个人标志外，还应该能够代表当地文化，这一点很重要。

导报：您认为建筑之美应该更注重直观感受，还是需要加入一些理解才能领略到？

曼尼斯：我相信建筑之美在于为复杂的问题和需求给出技术上的创新答案，并以直观智慧（即我们的感觉和感受）可以理解的形式表达。

导报：新建筑应如何与周围的建筑协调起来呢？您在建筑设计中是如何考虑周围的建筑呢？

曼尼斯：建筑环境产生于社会又作为社会一种有形的、几乎可量化的表现形式，我对它和对自然环境的关注度是一样的。如果我想了解由我设计的建筑所在的社区，我不会忽视一直以来它占有这片居住地的方式。因此，在为该地设计项目时，我会考虑到当前形势及其演进，以及我的发展，尝试将该项目发展成为一种价值主张，响应提高其所在城市结构总体质量的目标。

因此，如果建筑场地位于一个混乱和分散的城市社区，我会尽量让建筑成为中心参照点。Magma 艺术与会议中心以及Las Chumberas 的圣救世主教堂和社区中心就是如此：该项目位于特内里费岛上圣克鲁斯-德特内里费和拉古纳之间的郊区。在这个名为Las Chumberas的多边形社区，住着670 户家庭，由70 年代的42 个街区以及购物中心和工业仓库组成。由于不稳定和瓦解的城市结构，在该地区居住着一群无权无势的人。在此背景下，社区改造开始了，居民们设想未来的教堂和社区中心将成为改造的催化剂：目的是成为城市中心参照点。这座建筑以其巨大规模，帮助当地社区定义了一个新的身份，并为公众注意到该社区的不稳定性提供支持。该项目已被收录进纽约现代艺术博物馆，证明了包括建筑师团队在内的所有参与者在这方面所做的部分工作成果。

相反，如果要我设计的建筑场地位于一个正常运行的稳定环境中，也许在遗产中还有一定的历史分量，此时我的干预措施就不再求改变顺序，而是确定价值并识别它们，同时在视觉、规划等层面丰富城市机理。CKK Jordanki 音乐厅就是这样：其位于历史悠久的市中心周围的绿环内，俯瞰着维斯瓦拉河。为了使新建筑在自然环境和建筑环境中显得和谐，在设计体量的方向和高度时需要特别小心。因此，该建筑只占据了场地的一半，另一半则留作公园，并且高度尽可能低，以避免遮挡河上的景观。所达到的视觉效果是一个自然物体，一块卧于缓坡草甸上的天然岩石。它的存在并没有掩盖这座历史名城的光辉，这是一座受联合国教科文组织保护的城市，几乎所有老城区的外墙都以红砖装饰。实际上，Jordanki CKK 音乐厅中使用的砖块是对传统砖块的重新诠释，是对托伦市外墙的引用，说到底是对其文化遗产的引用。

导报：您认为建筑在场地中所扮演的是什么角色，是共同塑造了这种感觉的配角还是更重要的主角？

曼尼斯：建筑必须能够创造一个原本没有的空间，从而促进社会凝聚力和进化。然而，建筑的改造能力不仅取决于建筑师，还必须根据项目周围的具体环境和象征性环境进行校准。如果没有足够的创造性规则，没有愿意寻求最佳解决方案的客户或社区，建造好的建筑（即改善生活的建筑）的尝试可能会失败。如前所述，建筑方案是对自然和建筑环境、计划、预算、开发商或未来用户等的平衡回应……需要除了建筑师之外更多的参与方的承诺。

我已经详细介绍了教堂如何成为解体的城市结构的中心，并为周边社区提供可见性。还提到了CKK Jordanki音乐厅的案例，它在尊重当地建筑遗产的同时，能够扩大城市的文化内涵，像是一个适应性极强的容器，能够举办非常广泛的表演艺术项目。但是，德国柏林施普雷河上的浮池项目才是一个建筑项目所能拥有的深刻改造能力的典型。自2004 年落成以来，它的成功就立刻显现出来，目前已经为城市的休闲和文化活动场所。然而，它最大的优点是将柏林城市生活的一个基本问题公之于众：柏林人有一条流经城市的施普雷河，但河水污染严重，使得洗澡很危险并被禁止。柏林人在河岸晒日光浴，却不能洗澡。我们的公共游泳池在提出解决方法的同时也突出了问题，就像从河里取出第一滴干净的水。通过我们的项目，我们希望可以提高人们对净化河流、保护河流并恢复其与城市关系的必要性的认识。正如AEDES FORUM BERLIN 画廊的创始人兼副主任Kristin Feireiss 所指出的那样（见西班牙加那利广播电台播出的费尔南多·梅尼斯的电视报道第35 分36 秒），2012 年，也就是近十年后，“Flussbad 协会成立的目的是清洁施普雷河的水，使人们能够在市中心的河里洗澡。”

导报：您如何看待混凝土材料？您想尝试更多轻柔的材料用于建筑吗？

曼尼斯：我做的项目不太为人所知，可能是因为它们不是建造的，所以不像其他项目的名气那样大，但这些项目对我的建筑作品形象产生了决定性的影响。正因如此，更多的建筑才被人所知，如加那利群岛政府的总统府（1999）、Magma 艺术与会议中心（2007）、CKK Jordanki 音乐厅（2015）、位于阿德赫的西班牙广场（2011）及其仍在建设中的地下博物馆或特内里费体育场（2007），它们都是明显地表达地球理念的项目。

但是，我想知道人们是如何感知和描述其他项目的。比如我刚才提到的柏林浮池项目（2004）；或者Cool Box 项目（2011），是一项关于竹子建筑的方案，在哥斯达黎加萨拉皮基旧港环境教育空间竞赛中获得第二名；或者Bürchen Mystik（2013），是瑞士阿尔卑斯山一个小镇经济和社会复兴竞赛的获胜方案，我们在那里提出了一系列以木材和木材小工厂为中心的城市和旅游基础设施；或者Ana Bautista 体操馆（1992），一个木质和混凝土构筑物，有着一个巨大的起伏屋顶，屋顶上有巨大的玻璃立面；或者像Icod de Vinos 的El Drago 公园，一个始于20 世纪80 年代的复原项目？

一个方案，包括材料的选择，是一系列考虑的产物，其中原因和情感相互作用。然而，我不否认，我对我们地球的地质历史、表现形式、它的裂缝、火山和液态可存储水泥浆、它的坚固性和结晶性以及它的侵蚀和开采非常着迷。还有它所拥有的生态系统的多样性。同时，我对海洋及其神秘的生物多样性也很着迷。最后一点则是我无法也不打算避免的亲缘关系转化的个人印记。

导报：现实中，如何实现自然能源与建筑的共生？

曼尼斯：这正是我在整个创造过程中一直探索的。80年代，我在巴塞罗那接受了建筑师培训，并在巴黎的Bofill 工作室工作了一段时间，之后我回到了加那利群岛，和我的同事一起参加并赢得了Icod de los Vinos的El Drago 公园修复比赛。Drago 是一种古老的树，也是加那利群岛的象征。在可持续发展或生态保护等概念仍然是外来新事物的时候，我们就敢于提出一种即使不是开创性也是不同寻常的方法：将重点放在El Drago上，恢复交通和建筑入侵前古树周围的自然环境。在我后来职业生涯的关键时刻，我意识到了我的“幸运岛”的性质所具有的非凡价值，并且我开始了一条轨迹。或多或少地，这条轨迹显然一直以建筑的行动主义为标志，支持尊重自然，与之共存。

我对您的问题没有明确的答案，但正如我的项目所表明的那样，我倾向于与自然力量合作并将它们用作项目的元素，优先考虑被动解决方案。当地形和地热、植被、自然光、空气、湿度、天然材料以一种令人崇敬的方式融合在一起，可以为我们提供空调、通风、阳光、卫生、声学和建筑物结构相关解决方案。

导报：您了解中国吗？请谈谈您对中国现代建筑的看法

曼尼斯：对于这个话题我有很多可谈的，我对香港和台湾的岛屿领土有所了解，在中国大陆，我知道一些像丽江这样的地方，但对于欧洲人来说，中国很大，我每次到这个美妙的国家旅行，都会学到一些新的东西。

关于中国现代建筑，近几年来，我发现了越来越多优秀的建筑师，我特别欣赏“标准营造”工作室，尤其是他们在北京的微胡同，我也很欣赏王澍对建筑的远见，仅举几例。

导报：您对当今世界建筑的发展趋势有何看法？

曼尼斯：在一个像今天这样复杂的世界中，在我们没有办法全面解决气候变化的情况下，重要的是应用“大家一起”或者更好地说是“负责任地一起”的文化，来管理所有出现的复杂性。

我更喜欢谈论公民权利，而不是建筑的趋势。拥有高质量的建筑是公民的权利，建筑被理解为城市和城市景观创造机会的学科。不仅仅是一种趋势，我认为将常识融入建筑（乡土建筑往往是这样建造的）在今天几乎是一种创新。这是因为它将建筑与文化、人文景观与自然和可持续性结合在一起。换句话说，建筑的目标是实现理性与情感交融。而且我认为，如果不是如此，那应该是一个世界的趋势，这个世界只有一个世界，除了我们所有人都居住的这个星球之外，我们没有其他星球。

WARA:How do you control the use of building materials in different construction projects?

Menis:I have made a commitment to use natural materials from the place whenever possible because through their colors and textures,they contribute to the building being visually integrated into its natural environment and materially in accordance with the culture that hosts it.At the same time,I use materials that are manufactured and are in common use in the place.Thus,for example,I have used concrete and brick for the CKK Jordanki Concert and Congress Hall in Torun because in addition to the concrete that is manufactured locally,brick is another of the most common materials in the area and is very present in buildings and on the facades of the historic city center.On the other hand,for the Center of Culture and Conventions Magma of Tenerife,I have used concrete and volcanic stone from the island because they are two very accessible materials in the Canary Islands.If I were to build something in China,I would use local materials.

This approach to materiality is in line with one of the principles of Km0 architecture to which I adhere more or less imperfectly.According to experts,buildings are responsible for about 40% of carbon dioxide emissions and much of this comes not from operational energy (the electricity to turn on lights and air conditioning),but from the energy used to build.This type of energy expenditure is known as embodied energy and refers to the emissions produced in the process of production and transport of construction materials and systems.

If we aspire to reduce the carbon footprint in construction,in other words,if we want to be "green",it is necessary to look in depth at all these processes because it is not enough to have a building equipped with technology that saves or promises to save energy costs-such as,for example,solar panels-you have to trace the footprint from the manufacturing and transportation process of this technology to its maintenance over the years,its potential for reuse or recycling,its biodegradability,etc.In other words:comprehensive data are needed to assess whether the amount of emissions that you promise to reduce offsets the amount of emissions that was released to be in our building.This is very complex and,at the moment,there is nothing,no program,no app,no certificate that guarantees this completeness.From the position in which I find myself,that of an architecture studio of almost artisanal size,I consider that I can contribute to the care of the environment and the social cohesion if I privilege the use of local materials as well as local companies and artisans.

Added to this is the effort we make to reuse and recycle all possible materials.Sometimes we reuse an entire building such as is the case with the Rehabilitation of the Teobaldo Power Performative Arts Theater in La Orotava or with the Adaptive Reuse of the old School La Asunción and Park Viera y Clavijo in Santa Cruz de Tenerife to become the future Rodin Museum,its second headquarters in Europe.Or,as has happened in the `90s with the El Tanque Cultural Space,an old oil deposit that we transformed into a multipurpose cultural space.In other projects,we only reuse elements or parts that we integrate into the new building and,in this sense,the Presidency of the Government of the Canary Islands has been exemplary where the heart of the building is an old wooden patio,or the Floating pool in the river Spree of Berlin that reuses and transforms an old barge,or House MM whose structure is attached to a central staircase made with waste material from the CEPSA oil refinery of Santa Cruz de Tenerife,or CKK Jordanki where we used broken bricks destined for waste.

Concrete,very present in our buildings and one of the most used construction materials in the world,may not seem like a sustainable material.However,it is a material that is produced locally,it is resilient,durable,versatile and can be recycled as an aggregate to produce new concrete,significantly reducing emissions,which makes it part of the circular economy.Recently,the UN,through its Intergovernmental Group of Experts on Climate Change,pointed out that concrete in its built form can absorb over time up to 50% of the carbon dioxide that is emitted during its production process and by therefore it can help to improve the living environment.(for reference,please see:https://www.ipcc.ch).

WARA:ln architectural modeling,your works often have sculptural volume and edges.Is this related to your experience or local culture?

Menis:In my projects,from the rationality required by the context,the program and the budget,I work with free geometries.Overcoming symmetry opens up directions in which,on the one hand,expressive possibilities are expanded by getting closer to forms more typically found in nature or,as you say in your question,enhancing certain sculptural attributes.On the other hand,the technical possibilities are also expanded to respond to complex programs without compromising the expressive ambition of the project.My way of dealing with this double tension is through working with models made of moldable materials that,thanks to this flexibility,can evolve along with the data and ideas,in a back-and-forth process.To explain this interactive relationship between model and project,perhaps the most complex example of my career to date serves me,the CKK Jordanki Concert and Conventions Hall,in which we were defining the acoustic system through models and measurements,but also by integrating materiality and local constructive culture.

The acoustic design brief for the CKK Jordanki called for a flexible room that could serve both as the home of the Toruńska Orkiestra Symfoniczna and as a multi-purpose venue for all types of events,including congress and conference,amplified concerts,theater and opera.In order to cope with these ambitious expectations,variable acoustics were an essential part of the design of the main hall and to achieve it,my own and the acoustical engineer's experience in previous works were essential.However,acoustics is a complex science that requires not only knowledge and experience,but also advanced technological tools in order to achieve the desired outcome.In the preliminary stage of the project,the shape of the inner surfaces was defined by analyzing the reflections of a laser beam in a clay model of the hall with its inner surfaces covered in aluminum foil.This allowed us to actually “sculpt”the hall in real time.Later on,during the design development,computer 3D modelling was used to fine tune the shape of the hall in an iterative process.Progressive refinements were introduced in the model and analyzed during the design process,until we were happy with the calculated results.During the design process,a scale model of the hall was also used to analyze specific situations.This highly irregular geometry of the inner surfaces of the hall guarantees a first layer of diffusion and the shape of those surfaces has been carefully crafted to maximize the sense of envelopment.The use of massive and heavy materials (concrete and brick) minimizes the low frequency absorption,providing a warm and full bass sound.

However,a second layer of diffusion,effective only at high frequencies (2 kHz and above),is provided by the rough,textured surface of the walls and ceiling.And,here it's where the local materiality and constructive culture comes in.What is the "picado"? It's a new,certified material that consists of mixing concrete with other materials,and"chipping" its surface after it is set to achieve certain effects.The choice of materials added responds to factors such as the functionality and expressiveness desired,the coherence with local architectural culture or the availability of materials on site.We had already experimented with textured concrete in the building for the Presidency of the Government of the Canary Islands (1999,Tenerife),but the Magma Centre for Culture and Congress (2007,Tenerife)was a milestone in its use,since we mixed concrete with porous volcanic stone and chipped the resulting surface to achieve a certain acoustics within the spaces.We perfected the technique for the Jordanki Culture and Congress Centre (2015,Poland) where we mixed concrete with red bricks,a material that is widely used in the facades of the historic heart of Torun,thus paying homage to this legacy.In this case,the massive mixture with irregularities of up to 3 to 4 cm has excellent acoustic properties in terms of reflection and diffusion of sound,making its use suitable in the concert halls.Besides this,we usually use local materials that involve the local economy and here,in Torun,that traditional material is brick.This texture softens the harsh sound associated with purely specular reflection from hard and flat surfaces,and gives a mellow and smooth character to the sound of the orchestra.

WARA:Your work is described as "an exciting building that people can fall in love with at a glance".Then why do you think people fall in love with your work at a glance? What is the secret of the success of your work?

Menis:Architecture as I conceive it,should be able to improve life,understood in a broad sense.The goal is to improve the lives of humans of course,but never in conflict with their natural environment.The history of the human species represents a relatively short period compared to the history of the planet.Before us,there has been almost everything else that we call nature.What was it like in its original state,before our ways of colonizing it appeared,before architecture?How can I respond to what we are and need now as a society without necessarily remaining anchored in the current moment,always fleeting? How could you make a building that can adapt to our inevitable evolution over time? It is an exercise of imagination that I always submit to when I go to a new place that I have been commissioned to build in.With the answer that I give,through my architecture,I try to restore a certain sense of a primeval time and place while still meeting current program and budget requirements,but with an eye toward the future.

If the attempt is successful,the result is an architecture that could be called "timeless architecture".In the first place,the resulting building or infrastructure will evoke a natural accident,of organic and resounding forms,closer to those found in nature than to those found among forms made by humans.Within the anthropized scenario in which we usually develop our lives,any manifestation of nature or something similar to it can be fascinating,regardless of any aesthetic preferences.Perhaps this explains the initial crush.

But,my ambition is that this crush is transformed into lasting passion after a deeper knowledge of the project.For this reason,I imagine the relationship between user and building almost as an initiatory journey in which thresholds are overcome through different sensations:varied textures that surprise the touch,controlled natural lighting to create dramatic effects,the sequence between low and great heights to alternate the sensations of compression and decompression,gaps that frame views and direct the gaze towards the landscape,enveloping acoustics,the massiveness that increases the feeling of protection,etc.

On the other hand,that of rationality,I seek to make highly adaptable buildings:certain indeterminacy in the interior configuration,leaves enough freedom for the user,individual or collective,to take over the space,make it their own,now or at any time in the future.At the same time,I seek to enhance the sustainability of the building through careful implementation in the topography,the use of local materials and companies,reuse and recycling,passive solutions and easy maintenance of the buildings.

WARA:Before architectural creation in different countries and cities,do you have your own unique thoughts on exploring the local regional culture?

Menis:Studying regional culture seems to me a necessary step in the attempt to decipher the codified relationship that has been built between the natural environment and the artificial environment in which you are going to have to settle your building.Observing the vernacular architecture of the place,studying its history,understanding the regional and local economy,reveal techniques,solutions and materials that have been used in a traditional way,whose effectiveness has been demonstrated over time.It is an enormous learning that has been accumulating and that you can take advantage of with the perspective that current technology provides.

This conviction has led me to start Hatching,a longterm research project that we are developing in our small innovation department from the desire to contribute to the debate of living sustainably.One of the research lines within Hatching,is the possibility of living in water scarcity scenarios.In deserts and islands,what we want to help systematize and advance has already been practiced intuitively.For instance,on the island of Lanzarote,in Geria,but also in other arid parts of the worlds,the farmers fight extreme aridity by collecting clouds humidity through absorption by porous volcanic rocks.This primitive method is based on the dew point:The dew point temperature is the lowest temperature at which the water vapor contained in the air begins to condense and produce dew,mist,clouds or frost.Our research is inspired in this experience and seeks to escalate its principles to enable liveable habitats in the desert by naturally providing water and humidity.

I imagine a life machine with zero-energy waste.I aim to prove that an architectural structure can originate life by delivering water,previously extracted from winds and clouds by exclusively using natural energy and form manipulation.The 1:1 prototype would be an absorbent concrete cube.Northern winds erode it,making its northern side porous and so allowing humid winds to enter and form dense clouds inside.This condensation provokes vegetation to erupt and contribute to a water circulation.Water is also stored in the insulated base of the structure where it maintains its temperature.The base also works as a protection against lower warm winds.And,since life needs sun,the south side will provide shelter from heat while allowing sun rays to enter.Peripheral small pores and large openings are entrances and exits for a complex system of canals and chambers through which winds blow to provide ventilation.

I think that whenever making a new building,you have to be able to innovate and affirm your identity,but always from what is recognizable by the community that hosts it and will use it.Architecture,even in its most private version that is private housing,usually has a public part when it is not directly a public space or building.Once built,architecture is inevitable,you will see it and you will have to interact with it every day.For this reason,it seems important to me that,beyond the personal mark of the architect,architecture should be able to represent the local culture.

WARA:Do you think the beauty of architecture should pay more attention to direct feeling,or do you need some understanding to get it?

Menis:I believe that the beauty of architecture consists in giving technically innovative answers to complex questions and needs,codifying them in expressions that may be read by our intuitive intelligence that is our senses and feelings.

WARA:How should the new building relate to the surrounding buildings? How do you consider the surrounding buildings in your architectural design?

Menis:To the built environment,as a tangible,almost quantifiable manifestation of the society that produced it,I pay the same attention that I pay to the natural environment.If I intend to understand something about the community that will use my building,I cannot ignore the ways in which it has been occupying the territory it inhabits,throughout history to the present day.Therefore,the project that I will make for the place,will take into account the existing,but also the evolution to the current situation and mine,will try to be a value proposition,responding to the objective of enhancing the general quality of the urban fabric in which it settles.

Thus,if my site is located in a neighborhood with a confused and disaggregated urbanism,I will try to make my building provide centrality,to function as a reference place.This is the case of Magma Art&Congress or The Holy Redeemer Church and Community Center of Las Chumberas: The site is located on the outskirts halfway between Santa Cruz de Tenerife and La Laguna,on Tenerife island.The neighborhood called Las Chumberas,is a 670 homes polygon organized into 42 blocks from the '70s plus shopping centers and industrial warehouses.Flawed by precariousness and disintegrated urbanism,the area is inhabited by an unprivileged population.In this context,a process of transformation of the neighborhood began,in which the future Church and Community Centre has been envisioned by the residents as a catalyst for change:It was meant to become a place of urban centrality and reference.The building with its massive presence,helped defining a new identity for the local community and supported it at drawing public attention to their precariousness.The fact that this project has been included in the MoMA New York's collection may reveal part of the work that all those involved,including the team of architects,have carried out in this regard.

On the contrary,if my site is located in a settled environment that works correctly,which perhaps has a certain historical weight within the heritage,my intervention does not seek to alter the order but rather to identify the values and recognize them while enriching the urban fabric at the visual,programmatic etc.level.This has been the case with CKK Jordanki:which is located within a green ring around the historic city center,overlooking the Vistula River.Therefore,special care was took in designing the orientation and height of the volumes so that the presence of the new building establishes a harmonious relationship with the natural and built environment.Thus the building occupies half of the plot,the other half being dedicated to park and the height is kept as low as possible,to avoid blocking the view over the river.The visual effect achieved is that of a natural object,a rock embedded in a gently sloping meadow,cuya presencia no se sobre impone al perfil bajo de la ciudad histórica,an UNESCO protected city,in which almost all the façades of the old town boast of red brick.Actually,the use of brick in Jordanki CKK is a contemporary reinterpretation of the traditional brick,is a reference to Torún's façades,and ultimately to its cultural heritage.

WARA:What do you think is the role of architecture in the site,the supporting role and the more important protagonist that co-shape the feeling?

Menis:Architecture must be able to create a place where there was none and thereby contribute to social cohesion and evolution.Its transformative capacity,however,depends not only on the architect and has to be calibrated according to the material and symbolic circumstances surrounding the project.Without having adequate and creative regulations as allies,a client or a community willing to seek the best possible solution,the attempt to achieve good architecture,that is,architecture that improves life,can fail.As explained before,the architectural proposal is a balanced response to the natural and built environment,the program,the budget,the developer or the future user,etc.etc ...and it needs the commitment of more involved in addition to the architect.

I have detailed how the Church has been able to provide centrality to a disintegrated urban fabric and visibility to a peripheral neighborhood.I have been also referring to CKK Jordanki,as an example of a building that,while respecting the local architectural heritage,was able to expand the cultural offer of the city,providing an extremely adaptable container capable of hosting a very broad program of performing arts.But,perhaps,an exemplary project for the profoundly transformative capacity that an architecture project can have is the Floating Pool on the River Spree in Berlin,Germany.Since it was inaugurated in 2004,its success has been instantaneous and it currently completes the leisure and cultural offer of the city.However,its greatest merit is having made visible a fundamental problem of the urban life in Berlin:Berliners had a river,the Spree,which runs through the city,but with the water so polluted that bathing was dangerous and banned.Berliners sunbathed on the banks of the river,but could not bathe.Our public swimming pool highlighted the problem while opening a way to solve it,proposing the first drop of clean water in the river.Our hope was that,with our project,we could contribute to raising awareness of the need to decontaminate the river,protect it and thus recover its relationship with the city.As noted by Kristin Feireiss,the founder and co-director of the gallery AEDES FORUM BERLIN (in the TV report on Fernando Menis,broadcast by Radio Televisión Española de Canarias,minute 35:36),in 2012,that is almost a decade later,"the Flussbad Association was established with the aim of cleaning the water of the Spree river and being able to bathe in the river,right in the center of the city."

WARA:What do you think of concrete materials?Do you want to try more light and soft materials to shape the building?

Menis:Project I did are less-known,probably because they were not built and so,they have not become as widespread as others,which in the end,have become definitive for the image that is perceived of my architectural production.Thus,more buildings have been disseminated such as the Presidency of the Government of the Canary Islands (1999),Magma Art&Congress (2007),CKK Jordanki (2015),the Plaza España of Adeje (2011) and its underground Museum still in process or the Athletics Stadium of Tenerife(2007).They are all projects with a markedly telluric expression.

But,I wonder how other projects are perceived or could be described.Project like,for instance the Berlin floating pool (2004),which I just mentioned? Or the Cool Box project (2011),a proposal for a building made of bamboo that won the second position in the competition of the Space for Environmental Education of Puerto Viejo de Sarapiquí in Costa Rica? Or Bürchen Mystik (2013),the winning proposal of a competition for the economic and social reactivation of a town in the Swiss Alps;we proposed there a series of urban and tourist infrastructures that put the use of wood and wood small factories at the center? Or the Ana Bautista Gymnastics Hall (1992),made as a large undulating roof that rests on a wooden and concrete structure with a huge glazed façade? Or a project like the El Drago Garden in Icod de Vinos,a renaturation project that began in the 1980s?

A scheme,including the choice of materials,is the result of a series of considerations,in which reasons and emotions collaborate.However,I do not deny that I am fascinated by the geological history of our planet,its manifestations,its fractures,its volcanoes and liquid stone,its solidity and crystallization,but also its erosion and extraction.The diversity of ecosystems that inhabit it.At the same time,there is my fascination for the sea and its mysterious biological richness.In the end,affinities translate into a personal imprint that I cannot and do not intend to avoid.

WARA:ln reality,how to achieve symbiosis between natural energy and architecture?

Menis:This is precisely a constant search throughout my production.In the '80s,after my training as an architect in Barcelona and a period as a worker in Bofill's studio in Paris,I returned to the islands and,with my associates,submitted to and won the El Drago Park Rehabilitation Contest in Icod delos Vinos.The Drago is an ancient tree,a symbol of the Canary Islands.At a time when concepts such as sustainability or ecology could still be exotic,we dared to propose an approach that was unusual if not pioneering:to focus on El Drago as the opportunity to restore the nature that had surrounded the ancient tree before it was invaded by traffic and building.At that crucial moment for my later career,I became aware of the extraordinary value that the nature of my "fortunate islands" has and I begin a trajectory that,more or less obviously,has always been marked by activism through architecture,in favor of a respectful coexistence with nature.

I do not have a definitive answer to your question,but as my projects show,I am inclined to collaborate with natural forces and use them as elements of the projects,prioritizing passive solutions.Topography and geothermal energy,vegetation,natural light,air,humidity,natural materials,integrated in a respectful way,can offer us solutions for air conditioning,ventilation,sunlight,hygiene,acoustics,and the structure of our buildings.

WARA:Do you know anything about China? Please share your opinion on Chinese modern architecture

Menis:Knowing about China is a lot to say,I know something about the island territories of Hong Kong and Taiwan,and,in mainland China,I know some place like Lijiang but for someone coming from Europe,China is huge,and,every trip I have made to your wonderful country I learn something new.

Concerning the Chinese modern architecture,in these last years,I have been discovering more and more wonderful architects.I particularly appreciate ZAO/ standardarchitecture,especially their Micro-Hutong in Beijing and l also relate to Wang Shu's vision towards architecture,just to name a few.

WARA:What is your opinion on the development trend of architecture in the world today?

Menis:In a world as complicated as today,in the midst of the climate change for which we do not have total solutions,it is important to apply the culture of "us,together" or better said of "responsibly together"to manage all the complexity coming in.

Rather than trends in architecture,I prefer to talk about citizen rights.It is a citizen's right to have quality architecture,understood as the discipline that makes or creates the opportunity for cities and urban landscapes.More than a trend,I think putting common sense into architecture (vernacular architecture was always built like this) is almost innovative today.It is innovative because it mixes architecture and culture,with human and cultural landscapes with nature and sustainability.In other words,mixing reason and emotion is the goal of architecture.And I think that,if it is not,that should be the trend in a world that is only one world,we have no other planet than this one where we all inhabit.